Remember EP. 004? This conversation is a continuation of our interview with Karis. Before you get into this, why not catch up the first part? This week, we delve deeper into trusting the process, and as she did before, she's giving amazing practical tips. Happy reading!
Rhieme: You've said so much. Especially in that period of time where you didn’t think anything was coming through for you. I can definitely relate with that. For me, I wasn't really sure of what God wanted me to do. I was sharing with someone the other day that where I'm at right now, like the clarity I have now, is because of God. There are some things He instructed me to do and there were some others that came through experiences. So He'd say go for this opportunity and the lines just connect. But it's knowing that you also have a role to play. You can still invest and prepare yourself for that role there. Sometimes we miss out on very key opportunities because we’re so focused on making money. But it’s more about the experiences we gain. You mentioned with networking, even if someone doesn't give you a job on the spot, at least you've learned how to communicate with someone in a clear way, or you've learned to step out of your box. It’s all about consistency, patience and timing.
Karis: I understand that not everyone who is listening to this may be a Christian and I think that's completely fine. We as a generation have this notion where we want to arrive or we don't want to go through the necessary process. You want to get your career started and by the time you're 22, you already feel like you're behind. I'm going back to the spiritual aspect. I know for a fact, when I did that experience that was for free–I know the kind of person I was the year before. I wouldn't have had the humility to do that. When you go through that period where you have to be persistent it really breeds your why because nobody is going to be persistent for something they don't want. One of my cousins wanted to be a dentist. She didn't get into Dentistry in her undergrad. She tried again, and she didn't get insurance going into another Master's. But she eventually got in.
I think our perception of things is, "if we don't get this when we want, then it's a waste of time." I can't tell you how many people I have spoken with, that maybe it didn't necessarily lead anywhere if I look at it from a certain perspective, but still had an impact. You're not looking at how you are changing as a person. If you move through life that way, you will always be discontent and dissatisfied. So I say this for anyone who has maybe gone through recruiting cycles with nothing. My first piece of advice is that if you are a Christian, commit the situation to God and pray about it. Sometimes you go through something or you stop, and somebody asks you, why do you actually want to want that thing? Why do you want to work in this company? Why do you want to work in this industry? And if you search yourself and your reasons are your parents, how people will view you, those aren’t good reasons. But I would say don't waste the time during the period where it's not working. Because every single day, there's something you're learning, every single opportunity is not wasted. By the time I got the job I was more mature. I picked up on skills that when I got in there, I was not completely clueless. Somehow looking at those things and saying that what has this done to my character, if you go through disappointments in recruiting cycles, I guarantee you that by the time you finally break into the industry, you just have a different mindset. Make the most of every single season, including the seasons, where you feel like things are not working out for you.
Rhieme: So many gems in that and always asking yourself, why am I going into this? Sometimes we have this tendency to focus on the problem, but not pull out the lesson from it.
Rhieme: You’ve shared a bit of your journey, do you have anything else to add?
Karis: I immediately started waking up to the fact that I had to apply to internships so I started pursuing that. I did the spring week and was so convinced I wanted to go into certain departments within the bank. I shared that with my family and they said I probably didn’t want to be in that department and ended up pushing me into a different department. When I pivoted to the other division that my family members advised me to go into I didn’t do well in the interview and found myself trying to apply in the next recruitment cycle. I went back to Nigeria for the summer and I worked there. I was always like let's not waste the Christmas and do some things. I was finishing my final year, I didn't have a full time job and was wondering what was next. I wasted so much time and energy being so worried about it and I decided, if I'm going to do my Masters, I'm either going to do it in Oxford and Cambridge. I really wanted the collegiate experience not just the degree.
I didn't hear anything back from them for a while. Then I heard back from Oxford–I didn't get in, so it was Cambridge or nothing. Perspective has taught me that it would not have been the end of the world. But at the time, it literally felt like the floor was going to drop if I graduated and I didn't know what I was doing next. And God is merciful, Cambridge gave me an offer and a scholarship as well. It was God giving me something that was very unmerited. It was so incredible to me how could people see one name on your CV and they'd give you a first round interview. I would encourage anyone who has that opportunity with a top University, if you aren't so focused on working at a prestigious company, you could actually find yourself in a better place with a better work environment by virtue of the fact that your degree or your university basically opens the doors for you.
After Cambridge, I knew I wanted to work in an international organisation. I mentioned before that I finished university and didn't have a job. During that period I started writing, reached out to the contacts I had in Geneva and got that job. Out of that job, I was able to come back to Austria, and I've been working within technology and finance since then.
Rhieme: I love your journey because it's not conventional. What I really picked up on was what you said about the doors just opening at some point, which emphasises that you're not always going to be in the same season. Different seasons for different reasons. When you weren’t working, you started writing. Maybe that was what God wanted you to focus on at that point in time. I think sometimes there's too much pressure to have a job after you finish university but it’s more like what does God want from me at this point? What if He wants you to take the whole year off? Too many people focus on the systems that they see around. But look at you now. Even leaving an amazing University, you didn't have everything sitting on your lap then but you’re fine now.
Karis: Your brain has already picked out the next thing that isn't working. When I opened Linkedin, I didn't want people’s opportunities, I just wanted my own. I had my friends in Vienna who are like on a different level, because most people here supported themselves through their education. I'm not yet 26 and I'm a homeowner and I'm just thinking to myself, how did this happen? The testimony really of my life is that sometimes it feels slow and it feels like things don't really happen when I want them to happen but when it's that time for things to work together, it's so speedy. Not only have I cried through jobs, I have walked with friends who went through that process and have been on the phone with them after rejections. Now I see them and they're in full time jobs and they are thriving. We've all forgotten that season because of course when it's no longer your season, there's that amnesia–like, something that could have taken you four years? In those intervening periods, don't be slacking, don't waste time being sad. Get busy. What do you like doing? Those times may be for hobbies or skills. Take courses, develop yourself.
Rhieme: You've said so much. Especially in that period of time where you didn’t think anything is coming through for you. I can definitely relate with that.
Karis: Nothing is wasted. And if you know you don’t want to follow the traditional route, in those periods try new things. Your journey doesn't have to look like my journey. What do you actually have in your hands? What are you good at? What are you passionate about? I don't think you need to apply to 50 jobs for God to give you one. He knows the job He wants to give you and the plans that He has for you. I wish I was able to discern better when I was younger. If I could go back seven years I would say I wish that I was able to calm down and not be so stressed out by what everyone was telling me. Don't waste time because every season looks different.
Rhieme: I love that. So did you always know you wanted to work in the finance industry?
Karis: When I was younger, I actually wanted to be a crime scene investigator, because I used to watch CSI all the time. I felt like I had all that took to be a Lawyer. And then when I was doing my GCSEs, I picked up Literature. I picked up on Further Maths so quickly and enjoyed the predictability. So I think that intersection between liking maths, and then doing economics, going into university doing economics seemed to make sense. Once I went into university, it started making sense. I was going to work in finance, but to be honest with you from the internships I did, I found pure finance very boring. I did not consider technology until I left university because I thought that that ship had sailed. The short answer is, I definitely didn't, I definitely saw myself in finance industry, but definitely not in the combination of where I am now. Things took shape and fell into place at the time. The minute I landed here, and I thought that mix, I was like, this is where God wants me to be. It doesn't all make sense. I don't know where I'm going next. But this is where God wants me to be. I think that comfort allowed me to put down roots here in a time when I was always kind of in and out of so many different things.
Rhieme: Wow, thank you so much for sharing. I think the overall theme you've really highlighted, is trusting the process. Sometimes we think we must have everything figured out from the jump. But God knows He’s established you so it’s to move as He leads you. There are lot of the things I'm interested in now like finance, I would never ever have seen myself in. I struggled a lot with Maths and had promised myself that I'd never have anything to do with it but when God has already ordained something you can't avoid it. So it's just the whole thing of trusting the process and not being afraid to change as you learn more about yourself and your interests. So thank you so much for sharing that because a lot of the time we put ourselves in boxes.
Karis: 100%, there was definitely a lot more difficulty trusting God, uncertainty and fear. I'm just in that stage of life where I'm so good. It's such a testament to God's grace, because for a long time, I was always so uncertain and always in that insecure place, because you just feel like you don't know the next step. I'm so comfortable and confident in the fact that the next step is going to be even better and even more amazing. So when that time comes, even though I don't have all the answers, I'm also ready to move. I never looked, I never thought I was going to be in this industry. And it's such an interesting industry. It's such a dynamic and marketable industry. There was one scripture, I remember seeing that really frustrated me and it said, God has placed eternity in the heart of man, but He's also placed ignorance. Sometimes I think it's all about just trusting the process. There's so much in life to be thankful and grateful for. Don't feel like you've betrayed yourself if you have pursued a certain path for a long time and one day, you just know you’re not not supposed to be there. The worst thing you can do to yourself is stay after you know because it's one thing not to know and be there. But when you know, it's never too late to pivot into the other thing; it's never too late to say "this is what I want to do now."
When you stop focusing on your age, it's such a freeing process because you actually just realise that with certain things, it's not about the time everyone is doing it in. It's about the time that you are doing it in. The only thing that matters is that you are yourself. When you go to bed every day, when you look at yourself in the mirror, ask yourself, am I happy? Am I feeling fulfilled? Am I satisfied? And really, because I think deep down everyone has that internal check, am I where I'm supposed to be? If you can't answer those questions to a satisfactory yes it doesn’t matter what external voices are saying.
Rhieme: So good. I think I can spend hours just listening to everything you have to say. You mentioned LinkedIn and how at this point, you can start comparing your page to someone else's. Then the minute you graduate, and life starts happening, everyone is a bit too busy to start tracking others. It’s about focusing on the life that God has called you to and going at His own pace even if it doesn't make sense once you finish university. Everything has been very fast paced for me. So a lot of things like that God has called me to, He started speaking about them so quickly. Before I got to that place, I was in a state of confusion. I didn't have much vision and was just like, what am I doing? Almost everyday people my age would start businesses and I asked myself what about me?
Karis: When you made that comment that you felt like you didn’t know what you wanted to do, but gained clarity, I felt so happy for you. Because I just felt like if you are already so young, and you are able to discern when God is speaking to you, and what He's saying, please hold on to that. I think that's so beautiful because a lot of people spend their lives in confusion. Before we embark on anything, we need to go and check if it's good. I'm very intentional about growing in Christ, my skillset, my career etc. But I just try and wait till God gives me a blueprint for a certain season, or He tells me to focus on something in a certain season. I focus on that, because He's the one who knows why. Some might say, God hasn't spoken to me in a certain way, should I just sit on down? If you apply for an opportunity go there with an open mind, work hard and see and ask yourself, do I actually like it? God speaks to people in different ways. Sometimes it's instruction or sometimes practical illustration. From a practical point of view, it's also about trying different things, which is why I think when you're young, please stop trying to think that if you don't work, and get money, that you're wasting your time. This is the best time to put yourself out there.
Rhieme: I completely agree. One thing that just came to mind is not allowing people set the standard for your life. Sometimes family can make suggestions, then the next minute you’re interested in something else, they ask how can you do this after everything? Where I'm at, I can only say that I know what God wants me to do right now. I don't know what the next 10 years will look like. It’s about trusting the journey.
Karis: Sometimes you're also robbed of that growing process, when you're so focused on having a platform and a big platform. So early on, when you compare, when you look at a lot of people who are established on YouTube and Instagram, and you look at their earlier content, it's so bad in comparison to their current content. It took them a long time to understand their audience understand themselves, understand that they are X and become excellent in their delivery, excellent in their message, and so on. I feel like in this world, where everyone kind of wants the platform immediately, you don't also give yourself that space to have like a small audience and like refine things. You want to start and you automatically want to be big. So I feel like don't despise your humble beginnings. When we look at David in the Bible, they anointed David to be king and he went back to look after the sheep. But you see that sheep he was looking after was a metaphor for the Israel that he was later going to shepherd as the King. But he had to learn it on a smaller scale, had they carried that little boy and put him on the throne, he would have been a disaster. So I do think that sometimes it's also grace that doesn't allow you sometimes to have like a big audience, we are still learning things.
Rhieme: What tips will you give anyone who wants to break into the finance industry?
Karis: Aside from everything I've said before, soft skills like building experience, even if it means working for free. I've spoken about networking. So try to connect with as many people as possible and trying to look at those relationships as being more long term-oriented in terms of building a professional relationships with people. I spoke about persistency even when it's hard. I've spoken about discerning what God has to say. You shared your own story, which I think is very beautiful and very illustrative. What I would tell my younger self, would just be to chill. My younger self worried a lot. I was very upset when certain things were happening. I was always so focused on where I felt I should have been already. With interviews, treat them as a two sided experience. Do you like this company? I've heard so many stories about people who just had those poor team dynamics that really affected their experience. As you're having a conversation with the person, what kind of vibe are you getting?
Rhieme: Yes, so important. You need to be selective, don’t just settle and take any job. Have standards for yourself, don’t do things out of desperation. Assess people, do they align with your values?
Karis: And try to know who you are as a person. Try to get to know yourself as early as possible. This is not only key in work relationships, but in personal relationships, with friendships, in dating, and those kinds of things. Don't settle for a group of friends that you don't like who you are around them, you don't like how they treat you, you don't like how they talk about you, even if they've been your friends for like 10 years. Don't settle for wrong dynamics. Within the workplace, I think confidence plays a huge role. Because God put you there, it doesn't matter what people say. Everyday you need to act like you deserve to be there. You are not infallible, you will make mistakes sometimes, and maybe you may not have the most magnanimous boss, or maybe he's strict on you about it. But don't let that shake your confidence to the point where you have imposter syndrome. Try to make yourself personable even if it's a 30 minute call, say something about yourself that is unique to you because that is how they will remember you.
Rhieme: So key, everything that you've said is so important. At the end of the day, once you have the experience, it is your character that will set the tone. Thank you so much, do you have any last words?
Karis: I really enjoyed having this conversation with you. If you're already listening to content like this, or asking yourself these questions, you're already on the right track, and you're going to land on your two feet. Just keep doing what you're doing with less stress and pressure. Be around people that you can be vulnerable with, even in your failures. Life is such a gift, so enjoy it. I've learned not to sacrifice my well-being because I want to be gainfully employed. Live a balanced life, trust God, trust your process, trust the process. Trust the person that He's building you up to be and realise that to Him that is much more important than what He can give you.
Thank you so much for reading! If you haven’t already read the first part please do, and share your thoughts in the forum! Stay tuned for next week.
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