A lot of the time we reflect and realise we're quite different from others. We may want to pursue similar industries as others, but our differing interests might make us feel out of place. This is your reminder that who you are is more than enough. As we continue to rise and enter unknown territory, it's important we don't neglect different aspects of ourselves but rather embrace our individuality. Doing this is liberating and gives others room to do the same.
This week I'm joined by my guest Joyce Omatseye who has proven it's okay to embrace your individuality even in a traditional career path. Dr Joyce Omatseye is currently a doctor working in the United Kingdom. She shares her journey through her page Signed.DrJ. Joyce wanted to create a safe space to be open, vulnerable and real when it comes to her career and life as a whole.She is interested in all things healthcare, she would like to be able make a difference to the the provision of healthcare and play a part in improving access globally with a focus on Africa.
Joyce is passionate about people, taking care of our mental health and the need for women to have support and community. She co-founded ChasingYourTruth, a community of women in the healthcare field that aims to support, connect and inspire women within the field.
Joyce hopes that by sharing her journey and being open, she will be able to help one person out in their own journey.
Our conversation was amazing and served as a much needed reminder to embrace all aspects of yourself as you enter different career paths.
Rhieme: Hi, Joyce, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you please tell us about yourself?
Joyce: Hi, I'm so happy to be here. My name is Joyce, I'll start by saying I'm a doctor. I'm working in London at the moment. I'm a proud Nigerian and I've grown up in Nigeria all my life but now I live in London. I started sharing my journey through Medicine over the last two years during the pandemic, on my page on Instagram. I've used that space as a place for personal growth and expression and being able say what I actually really think. It’s been such a nice place to also connect with other people. I'm also a co-founder for Chasing Your Truth which is a network of healthcare professional, women in healthcare where we aim to inspire, support and create a space where people feel safe enough to be able to express how they're feeling. I'm very big on health care and improving healthcare as a whole, especially in developing countries and back home in Nigeria.
Rhieme: Thank you so much for sharing. So the last few conversations have been about entering different industries, and obviously, you’re into Medicine. What does taking up space mean to you?
Joyce: Taking up space to me, means finding your voice, even in spaces where you don’t think you should be. I think it’s building your confidence to allow you to feel like you belong in a space, where people say no. Interestingly, before I actually spoke to you, I asked one of my friends, I was like, “What does taking up space mean to you?” And she was like, she doesn't really know about taking up space, but she really thinks we should be talking about sharing the space. I was like actually, that makes a lot of sense to me. I feel like as women, especially in the world we are today, there's so much comparison and sometimes we're so focused on getting to the top by just making it and being in your hustle. Yeah I actually agree that we should not only thrive to take up space ourselves but we should actually collaborate and work together. That's what I was talking about Chasing Your Truth and I've co-founded with my friends. As I said, it's a space for women in healthcare, to be able to support each other and come together network. But this is actually because when we were in Medical School, I realised I needed other people that would be able to support me and be able to tell me what the next steps were and what they did. Sometimes, in Medical school, you don't do a lot of group work. Everything is, it’s up to me to pass my exam, go to that placement, make my own path etc. Sometimes you can fall into being that lone wolf. So I think having that support system and having a group around you can help you take up space. Sometimes I have an idea and even though I know I could easily go ahead with it by myself, sometimes I need that extra push. So we collaborate, they helped me and then you go ahead and do what you actually need to do. I think taking up space is important but I think it should be more about getting to know yourself and growing. It's more about believing that you belong in a certain place that you have chosen, not anyone else and I think that it's something we should continue to develop as we go along. Let’s take up space and let’s support each other.
Rhieme:I love that because I think even with the phrase “taking up space” I think there are two ways of looking at it. You can see it from the perspective of this is just about me or you can choose to find your voice and then use the space you've taken up as a way for other people to join you. At the end of the day, there's only so far you can go by yourself. As you said, too many people are self-centred. Whilst you should obviously take care of yourself, as you mentioned, considering other people as you're going up the ladder is important. Black women for example, in the corporate field that’s typically dominated by men. I think it would be selfish of you to find your way up but you’re not pulling others. There isn’t much impact when it’s just you. I love what you mentioned about opening the doors you’ve been able to walk through for other people to walk through as well.
Joyce: I agree, especially with the corporate thing. You’re already fighting to be seen as the only black person or black woman. Sometimes it can be so easy for you to fight, get there and do what you need to do. But I think sometimes you need to also look back and ask “can I make this one step easier for someone else?” It helps with the growth process. Supporting and taking other people along with you is really taking up space.
Rhieme: Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for sharing. On that note, can you please share your journey on how you stepped into the medical field?
Joyce: When everyone asks me “what made you become a doctor?” or “why Medicine?” I always find it cringe because I have the generic answer of I've always wanted to be doctor. I know it's because I was also inspired by my paediatrician, if I was sick or I had anything and my parents couldn’t help me, I knew I could go to her and I will feel much better whether or not she gave me anything. I was definitely inspired and I thought she was one of the coolest people ever. At A Levels, I had to fully make a decision and consider my options and ask myself “Is Medicine what you want? “So, I actually pushed through and said yup this is what I want. I stayed true to the process and went with it. It’s more interesting with my last two years, because I've been waiting to be a doctor then you have the pandemic and that was just wild. Maybe the last two years of A Levels were predictable. Then a pandemic comes and I'm a doctor no one told me this is how it's going to be and so there are so many highs of excitement. It’s been a great journey if I’m honest with you and now I'm now in my third year which is actually crazy. That’s what Signed Dr J has now become in terms of me being able to share my journey and process. I feel like I haven’t finished, I’m just starting.
Rhieme: Thank you for sharing I mean it's nice to know it’s not bad for you to have idea of what you want from the start. Sometimes you start to second guess if you have a good idea, and you may ask “Am I doing this from a place of fear?” I've always wanted to be a lawyer and my parents are lawyers as well. Sometimes people ask “are you copying them?” I always say no, I decided to.
Joyce: Even when it comes to Medicine, it’s half of my journey. There are so many aspects of that in terms of what my career looks like.
Rhieme: Yeah, thank you for sharing, you recently spoke about exploring other aspects of your career on Signed by Dr. J. How have you had the courage to try new things?
Joyce: The funny thing is before we come to this question I’ve always known I was doing Medicine, but now within it I’m the most confused because I want to do many things. For a long time, I focused on one pathway. Within Medicine, in the medical course you can take a year out to study a different degree. I did Business Management, I went to Imperial Business School, and I did Healthcare Management. I was so shocked to see the number of different things doctors were doing. I started to think about other things I'll be interested in like Public Health, Health Business and Management. Questions like “how do I come up with a hospital if I want to build in Nigeria?” It's not just about being a doctor, you need those other skills. Instead of waiting for the right time, I thought I would go ahead and start now. In terms of courage, I feel like you have to envision what you want. I got a mentor unintentionally, I had the best supervisor in my second year of being a doctor. She really sat down with me, and broke it down into “who is Joyce? “ What's your why?” “ Why do you do what you do in terms of your personal life?” “ What type of impact will you like to make in this world?” Those types of questions, I feel like, unless you have someone that asks you, you don't really go through all of that, because it sounds very deep. I feel like once I started getting an idea of what that means to me, I started writing it down. The courage comes from now knowing I have to figure out how to get there, even if it's baby steps.
This year I'm taking off, it's a risk. I'm supposed to be in a training programme but it’s a risk because I'm so used to having structure in my life, but I decided I needed to take space for me. Everything else has been for a degree, for helping someone. But I said, this year, let’s discover Joyce. I’m still a doctor, but what other things will make me happy? What are the aspects of Medicine that you like? For example, I was saying what’s my why? I want to improve healthcare and being a doctor is one side of things for me. Once I realised that, I had to figure out what the other sides are. Once I started figuring that out, I had the courage to start applying for stuff and reaching out to people because I knew what I wanted. I know even though I don't have the full story, I feel like I know the little experiences I need, that's why I did my Health Consulting internship in October. I was so happy I did it because I gained so much. I realised there were so many skills I had within Medicine, I didn't know were necessary in terms of other opportunities within Medicine and life generally. My main thing with experiences is, I want to find out what I like, what I don't like and what is important to me. Sitting down and doing that internship for one month, I realised I like people and talking, I need to be able to talk to people. When I was sitting down at the computer 24/7 I was like, my back is hurting, I missed that communication. As I say my journey is so long, it will probably take me a couple a couple of years to figure out exactly what I want to do. But it's nice to get started, it feels so nice to tick some boxes.
Rhieme: And you're getting there, I love that you took out the year for yourself. It was a risk because you're not sure what exactly will come out of it, But also what’s the point of boxing yourself in fear? I think the worst thing you can do to yourself is look back at your life and say if only.
Joyce: Yeah, that’s my worst nightmare, so I said to myself to be honest a year is not going to make a difference. If I don’t give myself this time, I will never know.
Rhieme: Yeah and everything else you shared. Knowing your why. I think it all goes back to spending time with yourself. A lot of the time people think you wake up one day and you just know. I think everyone is winging it, in the sense that you don’t know the full picture but what you do know, you’re running with it and making the most out of it.
Joyce: Exactly, just think of one or two things and start. As you go along, you’ll add as you go, but the experiences will help. I feel like our generation, we panic so much and I'm also guilty of doing it. We’re so guilty of thinking so far ahead, panicking then not trying. I also don't think it's bad to think about the next steps or think about what's important, because then you don't put a timeline on it. What's important to me, is what's important to me. I think you have to give yourself time to actually think.
Rhieme: It starts with you as a person and that's when you start asking yourself those hard questions “what exactly is driving you?” “Is it societal pressure? or because people say “ you talk a lot, be a lawyer”. I love that you mentioned taking time out for yourself and knowing why because in the long run, that's what will drive you. I’ve found that when you get to stages where you have to do interviews and applications, it will knock you out if you don’t know why.
Joyce: I’m sure with Law it’s similar, you still have to figure out how you’re different out of all the others that have applied.
Rhieme: With Law the questions are very specific. So they’ll ask “what experiences do you have that will help you be successful at this role?” You can’t come up with a response overnight. As you said, knowing why- that’s what will drive and keep you in the long run. As you said doing it for you. Not doing it because x person said so or you think or thought that was something you were supposed to do. Or acting from a place of fear, that definitely happened to me. With Law, they always say, if you want to work immediately after your degree, you need to start working towards that from your first year at university. At first it was Human Rights I wanted to go into but when I thought deeply, as much as I love it, I was scared to explore other areas because I felt very unqualified for those roles. I had said to myself I don’t feel qualified for this, so I’m not going to explore. But when I took out time and put myself in uncomfortable positions, like going for career dinners and open days, I realised I didn’t want to do Human Rights anymore.
Joyce: I think it’s so important to give yourself time to experience things. Even if you can’t get the experience, give yourself time to read about it. You’re right, if you’re not comfortable, you get scared and you don’t do it. Sometimes being slightly uncomfortable, like going to a place where you don’t know anything, allows you to ask questions, it allows other people to educate you. You’re able to learn something new and if you’re not learning something new, you’re not really growing. Sometimes we need to get out of that box, you choose to get out that box. If people you, you’re not going to do it. It’s good to have a nudge but if anyone tells me “ you must do this thing” I’ll start thinking I can’t be bothered, or there’s so much pressure. I think it’s so important to try something new and see if you like it. If you don’t try you’ll never know.
Rhieme: I think adopting a growth mindset is so important because it's actually okay to not always know what to say. I actually prefer when I'm in situations where I'm listening to people and not talking that much but sometimes people don't like that challenge, they don’t want to seem like they lack knowledge. I remember when I went for career Law fair last year and a challenge I set for myself was for everyone I attended, I’ll ask a question. That was out of my comfort zone because I didn’t know the other people who will be there. It was scary but I said to myself, you’re never going to do first year again so just do it and see how it goes. It was really useful and a lot of people limit themselves because they’re wondering is this a silly question? So thank you for everything you shared.
Joyce: Thank you for what you just shared. I used to be so scared of putting my hand up to ask questions, but now I’m like I won’t lose anything. If you talk yourself into doing it, you will do it. You just have to make yourself do it. I love the fact that you said, I'm setting a challenge and I'm going to try. If out of 10 events I only raise my hands for 1 it’s better than not trying at all.
Rhieme: Yeah, it definitely helps and you'll be proud of yourself because you did something you typically wouldn't on a normal day. What advice would you give someone who wants to pursue a career in medicine but is afraid?
Joyce: I think my first thing is don’t be afraid. Trust me, I know personally applying for Medicine is not the easiest it’s quite stressful, the process is so different from your friends.You don't have that many people in your school that will be doing it, you may have at least 6 people applying for Law, 10 people applying for Business. With Medicine you’re allowed to apply for 4, you have to do 2 extra exams. Sometimes you almost feel like other people may not understand what you're going through. I think the first thing is to look for support, look for someone, whether it's an adult, a teacher, a parent, or maybe not a parent, so you don't feel that pressure, but a friend. Someone you can genuinely open up to and speak about your goals, your application, your concerns so they can actually sit down properly and work things out with you. That’s something I wish I had, I was very stressed. The second thing, as we've as we've been saying throughout this is to make sure Medicine is for you. You can’t figure out if Medicine is for you 100% when you’re applying, but you need to make sure you’re the one making the decision and not someone else. Trust me Medicine is amazing, you get to help people, you get to make a difference but it is not easy. No one prepared me for a pandemic, my parents are so happy they didn't say “ you must do Medicine” because if they did, they would have been in trouble. I would have said “it wasn’t even my decision, it was your decision, you made me do this.” You need to make that decision. I know it's hard in terms of making that decision, but I think at A Levels when you're trying to decide whether or not you want to do Medicine, think about all the other possible things as well. I said I always wanted to do Medicine, but it's almost like I didn't explore anything before A Levels. I didn't know much about anything else apart from “if you like Sciences, our motto in a Nigerian school, you're a doctor”. I feel like I didn't really have that opportunity to explore all the other careers that existed . Again, I was able to speak to Simi who was a few years above me in Medicine. She said “make sure explore your options, You give everything a go”. It's a lifelong thing, it’s not a course you complete, and you’ve finished, you’re constantly learning. Even though I'm taking a year off, I'm still working as a doctor, I did my shift yesterday. I’m still studying for an exam in January. Ultimately, make sure you're the one that wants to do this. When things get hard for me, I know I wanted to do this so it's fine. A third thing is to reach out for help. When I was applying to med school, unless your parents knew a doctor or they could organise you some random work experience, I really didn’t know what being a doctor was about. I feel like now we're so lucky, we have so many medical students and doctors on social media, on YouTube and Instagram who are sharing their lives. They're sharing their journey, especially on YouTube where they're properly telling you what they’re studying and they're doing vlogs you can actually follow their day and can see what it's like to be a doctor. There’s so much access, you have way more access to things. I think the last thing is to just give it a go and actually believe in yourself through the process. Try not to be scared, ask for help when you need it. But you will never know if you don't do it.
Rhieme: Thank you so much, I really love what you said about how you need people. I remember when I was working on my personal statement and my family friend literally held my hand throughout that process. There was no way I could have done it by myself. So reaching out to people generally and older people. I love talking to older people to hear how they were able to do it. You need to put your pride aside and ask for help when you need it and it's okay not to know. I think l with these industries, especially something like Medicine, it seems as if everyone just knows and they wake up and suddenly know. But there's so much research and learning that goes into everything. As you said, just going for it and if someone doesn't take you see it as a redirection.
Joyce: I literally used to say to God, if I'm not meant to get this thing, don’t give it to me. Wherever I’m meant to go, I will go. I even used to tell Him in med school “ okay God, we’re in here now, but if I’m not meant to do it, let me just fail first year. I’m going to work hard because I’m meant to but let me know early on”. You can cry about it, you can doubt, but sometimes it’s not your time as well.
Rhieme: Yes! Before I used to take rejections so personally, but it reached a point where I was also getting a quite a few open doors. So I realised, it means even if there are rejections, there will also be acceptances. Whatever is meant for me, will not miss me.
Joyce: Try not to deal with the rejection so hard, sometimes rejection is good. The first day I failed my driving test, thank God I failed that test. Even though my driving instructor was so sure I was going to make it, I was like, thank God I didn’t. I would have passed and I could have gotten into an accident. It's good to work hard, do what you need to do but when rejection comes, you can cry about this, but also ask what can I do next? Or how can I improve that? Do some reflections from it and pivot.
Rhieme: You can see the redirection as making you give up on everything, or you can use it as your drive to work 10 times harder. Not from a place of fear but rather betting on yourself and trying again.
Joyce:It's one of those things where it's baby steps. We'll keep trying, we get it, we don't get it, we'll work through it. We’ll go into the next thing and pick ourselves up and sometimes you just want to relax and cry. I love crying because I think it's distressing and a way I can move on.
Rhieme: Yeah, I love a good cry. But as you cry, you pick yourself up again.
Joyce: Have a good cry, then we wake up the next day and we're like, let's try and be productive.
Rhieme: Thank you for that. Wow all the questions lead to this, how did you know medicine was a path worth pursuing?
Joyce: That question is very big because to be honest, I don't know if I have the right answer for it. As I was saying, right, when you're in medical school, you have this perception of who a doctor is and the life it entails. I really think it's when you're a doctor, which is quite sad, you can now fully say, is it worth pursuing? Because you are now fully in the system, you're fully working and you're fully doing the Medicine you've waited eight years to do. For me, it has been worth it. I've been able to make a difference in people's lives, even if it's the smallest thing. Patients will tell you, you really did this, I really love people, whether it has to do with my patients or my friends or family. I like that relationship I have with my patients e in making them feel reassured makes me happy. When I did my internship, I realised I never really thought about what job satisfaction meant to me. The satisfaction I get from being a doctor and making that small impact is so big. But as I've been saying, personally I would look at Medicine there are so many parts of it that I’m like no that doesn’t work for me and it may not be a 100% for me. That's why I decided I'm going to create my own career. Rather than, is Medicine worth it for me? I’ve accepted that my own career path is going to be different from other people’s. I don't even know how different it is going to be, all I know is it may not be generic and I don’t mind. Maybe we all need to go into personalised careers. I want to personalise my own career, it’s not going to be the normal doctor because if not you stay in a box where you watch a certain type of doctor work in the NHS but I know I want to do more with it. I think it's so important to have mentors that support you through that career planning stage. A lot of us in med school, we don't get that much career planning and mentorship. I think that's why a lot of people get confused halfway because you make a decision so early then you get to 27 and you're wondering is it worth it?
Everyone has their own pathway. There's so much more I want to be able to do in my career, as well as being a doctor, somehow I’ll figure it out.
Rhieme: Yeah I love that honesty. The truth is, even if you've been known for something for so long, you can actually choose to pivot unto something else. I think that's the scary part when people have always known you to be into something then you suddenly move unto something else.
Joyce: It panics them more than it panics to you.
Rhieme: Exactly, because they haven't seen anyone moving that way before so they’re wondering what are you doing? I see that as people projecting. People may ask “are you sure?” but that’s because they may have never seen something done in that way, not necessarily, because what you’re doing doesn’t make sense. So I love that you said that because you can truly choose to explore, you don’t have to stay on one path especially when you know staying wouldn't allow you express yourself fully. I love that you’ve accepted you don’t have to be like anyone else.
Joyce: When I even think of exploring, it’s also exploring within Medicine. When you decide to choose Medicine you then have to decide, do you want to be a surgeon, medic, GP? But what if you want to do everything? It's also okay to be a bit confused and make decisions for now. If you need to change your mind later, it's also not to too late as well. I Also in terms of measuring whether something is worth it or not, having your set of criteria is important. For me, I know it's important for me to have time with my family and have balance in some way. When I think of balance, in terms of lifestyle, interests, and other things within healthcare I'm interested in. If I was doing medicine 100% and everything else 0, it’s not worth it me. I know now, and I didn't know this before the pandemic, I need to have a balance between lifestyle, Medicine and interests. That’s what I’m trying to figure out and hopefully I will through experiences and talking to people.
Rhieme: I love that. It's also lust knowing what your priorities are and what matters to you. If not, you end up losing different parts of your life that are actually very important to you because you’re trying to keep up.
Rhieme: Do you have any last words or advice or anything that has been on your mind?
Joyce: I've really enjoyed speaking to you, it's nice to have these spaces where you're able to just speak and be yourself. I don't really have anything to say think the last thing is what we've been seeing throughout try and take baby steps. Forget about overdoing it, thinking too much and stressing yourself out. Take your baby steps one day at a time and ask for help. Whether it's in terms of career, progressing, mentorship or mental health and wanting to take care of yourself. Just ask for help. If you don't ask for help and or you don't take care of yourself, you can't actually do all these things. You can't think about your life and the future because everything will stress you, so ask for help.
How did you find this conversation? Any key-takeaways? Share below in the comments. Make sure you check out Signed By Dr.J and Chasing Your Truth.See you in next week's conversation!
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